RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly

[Victoria McEvedy <victoria@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Just to add a last comment -while waiting for more information from the IPC on 
this issue, Claudio I wonder if you could explain how the IPC makes these ad 
hoc arrangements transparent?



Certainly despite having been a member for nearly two years I don't know what 
Policy Committees exist, nor their membership nor their work product or 
decisions.



Regards,



Victoria McEvedy

Principal

McEvedys

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From: Claudio Di Gangi [mailto:cdigangi@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: 08 April 2010 15:14
To: Victoria McEvedy; Gomes, Chuck; Harris, Anthony; Rafik Dammak
Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



http://www.ipconstituency.org/officers.htm



From: Victoria McEvedy [mailto:victoria@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:12 AM
To: Claudio Di Gangi; Gomes, Chuck; Harris, Anthony; Rafik Dammak
Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



The bylaw---which I read in detail, did not answer my questions.



I'd be happy to direct them to the secretary -who is that?



Victoria McEvedy

Principal

McEvedys

Solicitors and Attorneys

cid:669FC637-760A-4D2F-B56E-2C180C1870CC



96 Westbourne Park Road

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T:    +44 (0) 207 243 6122

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From: Claudio Di Gangi [mailto:cdigangi@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: 08 April 2010 15:08
To: Victoria McEvedy; Gomes, Chuck; Harris, Anthony; Rafik Dammak
Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



Victoria,


I refer you to the IPC bylaws:



as I indicated yesterday the Officers either put out a call for volunteers when 
new issues are posted for public comment or sometimes refer back to teams or 
individuals that have expressed interest in ongoing policy issues, such as new 
gTLDs, RAA, and GNSO Improvements.



When submitting comments the IPC does not publish the names of 
authors/contributors. Should you request additional details I refer you to the 
IPC secretary.



claudio



From: Victoria McEvedy [mailto:victoria@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 4:49 PM
To: Claudio Di Gangi; Gomes, Chuck; Harris, Anthony; Rafik Dammak
Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



How many teams are there? Could you tell us their names?  How often is 
membership refreshed?



I'm actually on that Committee of the Future ---there was one call and nothing 
further was heard of it.



This raises the question as to where the real Policy work does happen?



I'm afraid it seems to me that it occurs behind closed doors-in some magic 
inner circle.



It is correct that a day before a submission a paper will be circulated ---but 
with no briefing or discussion/explanation of the options or reasons for 
strategy.



Recently and following my request -we are advised who drafted them -but not the 
name of the Committees.  The process of allocation of work to a Committee is 
also not disclosed.



Regards,





Victoria McEvedy

Principal

McEvedys

Solicitors and Attorneys

cid:669FC637-760A-4D2F-B56E-2C180C1870CC



96 Westbourne Park Road

London

W2 5PL



T:    +44 (0) 207 243 6122

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From: Claudio Di Gangi [mailto:cdigangi@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: 07 April 2010 21:34
To: Victoria McEvedy; Gomes, Chuck; Harris, Anthony; Rafik Dammak
Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



Yes, there are teams that work on ongoing policy matters & issues. All final 
outcomes/work products are shared for approval within the constituency, usually 
without voting. For example, the IPC has a Committee on the Future that is 
responsible for issues such as GNSO improvements, etc.



From: Victoria McEvedy [mailto:victoria@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 4:04 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck; Harris, Anthony; Claudio Di Gangi; Rafik Dammak
Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



Both the NCUC and the IPC have them -I believe-based on the tables we prepared. 
Perhaps Claudio can confirm as to the IPC. Its membership and actions are not 
published --even within the Group.





Victoria McEvedy

Principal

McEvedys

Solicitors and Attorneys

cid:669FC637-760A-4D2F-B56E-2C180C1870CC



96 Westbourne Park Road

London

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T:    +44 (0) 207 243 6122

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From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 07 April 2010 20:47
To: Victoria McEvedy; Harris, Anthony; Claudio Di Gangi; Rafik Dammak
Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



We are spending a lot of time talking about 'policy committees'.  I understand 
that within the broader GNSO context (PDP WGs, DTs, WTs).  In the case of the 
RySG I don't believe we have ever formed a group called a policy committee.  We 
often solicit volunteers to draft a first cut of a policy statement for SG 
review and consideration but the whole SG then provides input and expresses 
support or lack of support or provides minority statements, all of which are 
recorded in any policy statements the RySG submits.  Do other SGs or 
Constituencies actually have standing 'policy committees'?



Chuck



     _____

   From: Victoria McEvedy [mailto:victoria@xxxxxxxxxx]
   Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:28 PM
   To: Harris, Anthony; Claudio Di Gangi; Gomes, Chuck; Rafik Dammak
   Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
   Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly

   Thanks Tony -I don't think anyone here fails to understand what a Policy 
Committee is and isn't.  Again -I don't think repeating the volunteers point 
improves it.





   Victoria McEvedy

   Principal

   McEvedys

   Solicitors and Attorneys

   cid:669FC637-760A-4D2F-B56E-2C180C1870CC



   96 Westbourne Park Road

   London

   W2 5PL



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   From: Anthony Harris [mailto:harris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
   Sent: 07 April 2010 17:56
   To: Claudio Di Gangi; Victoria McEvedy; Gomes, Chuck; Rafik Dammak
   Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
   Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



   Claudio,



   Thanks for this clear response, which I support in it's

   entirety. ICANN's impressive growth since the days

   of it's launching in 1999, has been possible because

   interest groups were allowed leeway to self-organize

   within a framework of constituencies in the manner

   tha worked best for them. Rigid and bureaucratic

   straightjackets have never been the norm in the

   ICANN environs, and I hesitate to conclude that

   this has changed today.



   Two things caught my attention in the recent e-mail

   exchange flow:



   I noticed a certain skepticism about the question of

   difficulty in unearthing volunteers in constituencies,

   who would replace officers obliged to step down to

   comply with term limits. Well, be as it may, this is

   frequently a fact of life. Companies and entities may

   be willing to participate in a constituency as members,

   but not many would commit their representatives to

   engage as officers (sit on Council, Stakeholder Group

   Executive Committee, or Constituency Executive

   Committee). The reason? Simple - hours of workload,

   F2F meetings, teleconferences at unseemly hours for

   some, etc.



   With regards to comments that emphasize the need for

   "proposed standard rules to Policy committees", perhaps

   we should venture a reminder that, within a Constituency,

   an Executive Committee is not a Policy Committee, but

   simply a steering group that coordinates the ongoing

   functions of the Constituency, and ensures the membership

   has all due opportunities to discuss ICANN issues, and

   provide consensus input to the Councillors, and as of now

   the Stakeholder Group Executive Committee, on policy matters

   as they emerge in the GNSO.



   Tony Harris

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Claudio Di Gangi<mailto:cdigangi@xxxxxxxx>

      To: 'Victoria McEvedy'<mailto:victoria@xxxxxxxxxx> ; Gomes, 
Chuck<mailto:cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx> ; Rafik Dammak<mailto:rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>

      Cc: Julie Hedlund<mailto:julie.hedlund@xxxxxxxxx> ; 
gnso-osc-csg<mailto:gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx>

      Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:38 AM

      Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



      I think the issue is not just limited to the number of willing volunteers 
but also about the level of experience, knowledge, understanding and expertise 
volunteers have of ICANN and the evolving & complex issues under consideration. 
There is also the question of the potential impact of rules restricting 
participation on the effectiveness and efficiency of a group's operations, and 
the issue of the right to self-determination in group's setting their own 
operating rules on these issues to reflect their unique aspects, 
characteristics, communities, etc. - as long as consistent with the ICANN 
bylaws and the common principles the group's agree to as identified in GNSO 
improvements.  In this regard, a one-size-fit-all rule on participation may 
produce disparate impact since the groups represent completely different 
interests and communities, etc.



      So while I think it may be easy to just say impose term limits on all 
aspects, the impact of such rules need to be considered against the potential 
need or benefit of term limits.



      That's being said, we came to agreement on setting term limits consistent 
with the BGC recommendations for the executive leadership, i.e. the elected 
officers. In outside parlance, term limits are often limited to the executive 
branch only in many cases. For example, see efforts to impose term limits on 
the Congress in the United States.



      Hope helpful.



      claudio



      From: Victoria McEvedy [mailto:victoria@xxxxxxxxxx]
      Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 4:43 AM
      To: Gomes, Chuck; Rafik Dammak; Claudio Di Gangi
      Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
      Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



      Chuck -while people have talked about the shortage of volunteers 
generally - this applies to all committees/and Groups generally.



      Based on objections raised on WT calls it seems there are views that 
Policy Committees involve special concerns as to transparency and now to term 
limits and I don't believe there has been any real discussion on the 
distinguishing features of the Policy Committees in relation to these.



      Regards,





      Victoria McEvedy

      Principal

      McEvedys

      Solicitors and Attorneys

      cid:669FC637-760A-4D2F-B56E-2C180C1870CC



      96 Westbourne Park Road

      London

      W2 5PL



      T:    +44 (0) 207 243 6122

      F:    +44 (0) 207 022 1721

      M:   +44 (0) 7990 625 169



      www.mcevedy.eu

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      From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
      Sent: 07 April 2010 00:34
      To: Victoria McEvedy; Rafik Dammak; Claudio Di Gangi
      Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
      Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



      Victoria,



      It is not true that reasons have not been given.  It would be more 
accurate to say that you disagree with the reasons that have been given.



      Chuck



        _____

         From: Victoria McEvedy [mailto:victoria@xxxxxxxxxx]
         Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:42 AM
         To: Gomes, Chuck; Rafik Dammak; Claudio Di Gangi
         Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
         Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly

         There has been repeated objection to the application of any proposed 
standard rules to Policy committees ---but no reasons for this have been 
articulated and I for one do not support their exclusion. They lie at the heart 
of the work of the Groups.





         Victoria McEvedy

         Principal

         McEvedys

         Solicitors and Attorneys

         cid:669FC637-760A-4D2F-B56E-2C180C1870CC



         96 Westbourne Park Road

         London

         W2 5PL



         T:    +44 (0) 207 243 6122

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         M:   +44 (0) 7990 625 169



         www.mcevedy.eu

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         This email and its attachments are confidential and intended for the 
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         From: owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:owner-gnso-osc-csg@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck
         Sent: 06 April 2010 14:33
         To: Rafik Dammak; Claudio Di Gangi
         Cc: Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
         Subject: RE: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meetingly



         It may be helpful to realize that the concept of Executive Committees 
is now embedded in all the SG charters so there is a particularly significant 
role for these committees. Also, the concept of Executive Committees was not 
previously built in to the Constituency concept except indiviudally by some 
constituencies so the BGC probably didn't directly focus on these committees 
when recommending term limits.



         With that understanding, a reasonable compromise might be to apply 
term limits to Constituency/SG officers, Executive Committees and Council 
Representatives and recommend them as a best practice for other committees and 
subgroups.



         Chuck



              _____

            From: Rafik Dammak [mailto:rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx]
            Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 4:56 AM
            To: Claudio Di Gangi
            Cc: Gomes, Chuck; Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
            Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meeting

            Hi Claudio,



            I am in favor of more strong wording, best practice looks really 
optional and I am afraid that there won't be willingness to apply it in groups.

            for policy committees, they should be temporary by their nature if 
my understanding is correct.

            to apply term limit has to be applied for executive committees.



            Regards



            Rafik



            2010/4/6 Claudio Di Gangi 
<cdigangi@xxxxxxxx<mailto:cdigangi@xxxxxxxx>>

            Rafik,

            thanks, i appreciate your response.

            would you recommend the best practice for term limits apply only to 
the group's executive committee or to which group committees?

            under what basis is that distinction made?

            claudio

            ________________________________________
            From: Rafik Dammak 
[rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>]
            Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:40 PM

            To: Claudio Di Gangi
            Cc: Gomes, Chuck; Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
            Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meeting

            Thanks Claudio for your explanation, but I think that we need to 
improve the current situation and recommend common best practices. I may 
understand that few constituencies can face problem to have people volunteering 
(even if I have real doubts about those facts), I think that those 
constituencies have to work internally to improve the situation and not asking 
for lowering standards.
            I am not sure how the WT will handle that point, but I am clearly 
not in favor of what you suggest.
            @Olga @Michael I think that we need to make decision about this 
point and not block the on going review of the rest of document because the 
tight schedule  we have

            Regards

            Rafik

            2010/4/2 Claudio Di Gangi 
<cdigangi@xxxxxxxx<mailto:cdigangi@xxxxxxxx><mailto:cdigangi@xxxxxxxx<mailto:cdigangi@xxxxxxxx>>>

            Rafik,

            Just to further expand on my last reply to you:

            In light of the complexities of the issues that fall under ICANN's 
remit, it may be necessary or of great value to a Group to have a volunteer 
serve on the executive committee or policy committee for several consecutive 
terms before they have enough experience and knowledge etc. to serve as Chair 
or in another similar leadership position. That is if the Group is fortunate 
enough to have such volunteers who are willing and able to dedicate the time 
and energy necessary to serve in these positions in the first instance.

            No matter how representative a group may be of its community, one 
cannot assume that there will be endless pool of willing volunteers to serve in 
these positions. On the contrary, what likely matters more is what community or 
interest is being represented by these Groups and how directly or indirectly 
ICANN's policies impact them. Each group represents significantly varying 
interests that are impacted by ICANN's policies is a markedly different way, so 
this directly impacts participation. Therefore rules restricting participation 
on committees can impact Groups very unequally, and this is separate and aside 
from the issue of representativeness.

            Therefore, I believe we need to thread very carefully here. We have 
agreed to establishing term limits for constituency officers, which implements 
the BGC recommendation we were tasked with addressing. If groups want to expand 
term limits to other areas of their operations based on their specifics, that 
is of course something they are always able to do through their charters. If 
it's an issue our work team feels very strongly about, then I suggest we 
consider including it as a best practice.

            Hope this was helpful.

            claudio

            From: Rafik Dammak 
[mailto:rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx><mailto:rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>>]

            Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 3:36 AM
            To: Claudio Di Gangi
            Cc: Gomes, Chuck; Julie Hedlund; gnso-osc-csg
            Subject: Re: [gnso-osc-csg] Actions/Summary: 26 March 2010 Meeting

            Hi Claudio,
            I am confused about your suggestion as the limit will be 
meaningless if it is not applied to executive committee.
            if there is fears about volunteering, that issue is more linked to 
representativeness level of Group.
             "but I would not extend the term limit to policy and executive 
committees. This is consistent with the BGC recommendation which we are tasked 
with implementing, which states: ""There should be term limits for constituency 
officers, so as to help attract new members and provide everyone with the 
chance to participate in leadership positions."
             and after the effort done for II.8 I am not in favor of deletion.
            Regards

            Rafik





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