RE: [gnso-idng] RE: same string registered at 2nd level across different IDN gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]

["Edmon Chung" <edmon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Adrian,
This branched out from the original discussion and seems quite relavant to IDN 
gTLDs.
On the call this morning Chuck also suggested to move the topic of allowing 
confusingly similar TLD strings to be applied for by then existing registries 
(i.e. current and future new gTLD registries) to the council.  I plan to 
summarize that part in a new thread to see if people on this group feels 
comfortable about it first. Hope that works for you.
Edmon


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Adrian Kinderis
> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 12:30 PM
> To: Edmon Chung; gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [gnso-idng] RE: same string registered at 2nd level across different 
> IDN
> gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> 
> 
> All good conversation folks but sorry to play devil's advocate but this seems 
> far
> removed from the charter that this group was originally established for.
> 
> I don't want to sound grumpy but whilst the conversation is healthy perhaps it
> needs to be on a different list (i.e. the council list?)
> 
> Adrian Kinderis
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Edmon Chung
> Sent: Thursday, 3 December 2009 3:19 PM
> To: gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: same string registered at 2nd level across different IDN gTLDs 
> [RE:
> [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> 
> 
> And for DotAsia, barring the costs of ICANN fees (which could make it 
> prohibitive)
> our hope is to offer the IDN versions automatically and at no extra cost to
> registrants.  That has consistently been what our community had asked us to do
> (and in fact how .CN and .TW implements it in their respective IDN TLD 
> testbeds).
> Edmon
> 
> 
> PS. Since Israel is part of Asia, Hebrew is part of the consideration for 
> .ASIA :-)...
> on a separate note, could you point me to any Hebrew IDN Language policy
> development group... would like to get in touch.
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck
> > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:29 AM
> > To: Gomes, Chuck; Avri Doria; gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: same string registered at 2nd level across different IDN gTLDs
> [RE:
> > [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> >
> >
> > I should point out that you only activate a second level registration in the
> Hebrew
> > version of .com if we are offering the Hebrew version.  It will not be 
> > possible to
> > introduce all possible scripts for .com at once, especially at $185,000+ a 
> > pop.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:20 PM
> > > To: Avri Doria; gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: RE: same string registered at 2nd level across
> > > different IDN gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes Avri.  Just one clarification though.  As the registrant
> > > of ella.com you would be the only one that we would allow to
> > > activate ella.Hebrew_TLD-of-dotcom but we would not
> > > automatically activate it.  If you wanted ella-in Hebrew.com
> > > or ella-in-Hebrew.Hebrew_TLD of dotcom you would need to
> > > register one of those if you had not already registered
> > > ella-in-hebrew.com.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:11 PM
> > > > To: gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: Re: same string registered at 2nd level across
> > > different IDN
> > > > gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > hi,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck is this the same for you?
> > > >
> > > > Eric, I did not think this was what you said.
> > > >
> > > > a.
> > > >
> > > > On 2 Dec 2009, at 23:52, Edmon Chung wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Avri,
> > > > >
> > > > > It is really quite simple:
> > > > >
> > > > > IF you have "ella.com"
> > > > > THEN you can have
> > > > "ella.<COM_in_other_language_also_operated_by_Verisign>"
> > > > > You do NOT get a translation of "ella" in ".com"
> > > > >
> > > > > Based on your example:
> > > > >> I have ella.com
> > > > >> would i get ella.Hebrew_TLD-of-dotcom ===> YES would i
> > > > have אלה.com
> > > > >> ===> NO or is that אללה.com ===> NO or maybe even
> > > אלילה.com ===> NO
> > > > > (unless of course you registered them separately)
> > > > >
> > > > > Because I am not sure what ".com" would be in different
> > > > languages, I will turn back to my .asia example for the following
> > > > explanation:
> > > > >
> > > > > IF you have "ella.asia"
> > > > > THEN you (and only you) can have
> > > > "ella.<Asia_in_other_language_also_operated_by_DotAsia>"
> > > > > i.e.:
> > > > > ella.亚洲 ===(Asia in Chinese)
> > > > > ella.アジア ===(Asia in Japanese)
> > > > > ella.아시아 ===(Asia in Korean)
> > > > > ella.เอเซีย ===(Asia in Thai)
> > > > > ella.एशिया ===(Asia in Hindi)
> > > > > ...etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > IF you want "אלה.asia" it will be a different
> > > registration.  As you
> > > > > correctly pointed out, it is non-unique if you try
> > > > translations.  Also
> > > > > an important point is that this is no different than what happens
> > > > > today, so there would be no user confusion (or as chuck
> > > > corrected to
> > > > > say user confusion would be minimized... because it would
> > > provide a
> > > > > consistent experience)
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether:
> > > > > אלה.asia == אללה.asia == אלילה.asia
> > > > >
> > > > > Is a matter of the IDN Language policy for Hebrew under
> > > > .ASIA (which in fact we are trying to develop right now for
> > > our launch
> > > > and you are certainly welcome to provide suggestions :-))
> > > when ".ASIA"
> > > > launches Hebrew registrations.
> > > > IF they are to be considered the same by registration policies, it
> > > > would be applied to all
> > > > <.ASIA_in_different_langauge_also_operated_by_DotAsia>.
> > > That is what
> > > > we mean by offering the same string for registration only to the
> > > > current registrant.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Edmon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PS. I am not sure others did not get it... at least I think
> > > > Stephane got it... but I may be wrong...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On
> > > > >> Behalf Of Avri Doria
> > > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 4:53 AM
> > > > >> To: gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 2 Dec 2009, at 14:27, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Avri,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> If I understand you correctly, your conclusion is not
> > > > correct.  FCFS
> > > > >>> will only
> > > > >> apply (for LDH or IDN) if the exact second-level domain is not
> > > > >> already registered as a second-level domain name in the
> > > > applicable TLD (LDH or IDN).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 2 Dec 2009, at 15:14, Edmon Chung wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Edmon: I think Avri you probably mistook the idea... I
> > > think what
> > > > >>> Chuck and I were talking about is NOT about translation at the
> > > > >>> second level.  But offering the same string to the same
> > > > registrant
> > > > >>> under an IDN TLD.  More specifically, for example, a
> > > > registrant of
> > > > >>> "computer.asia" will be offered "computer.???" (where "???" is
> > > > >>> "Asia" in Japanese), OR a registrant for "???????.asia" (where
> > > > >>> "???????" means "Internet" in Japanese) will be offered
> > > > "???????.???".  There is no translation involved.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Pardon me, but i remain confused:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> concrete example/question
> > > > >> (ps we beter develop a way of talking about this that is not
> > > > >> confusing.  if we who supposedl understand at least
> > > > somewhat of what
> > > > >> is going on can't communicate, opps, we have trouble.)
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have ella.com and i might like to have it in Hebrew.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> would i get ella.Hebrew_TLD-of-dotcom
> > > > >>
> > > > >> or would i have אלה.com
> > > > >> or is that אללה.com
> > > > >> or maybe even אלילה.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >> (viable transliterations ad translations)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If we are talking about a translation or transliteration then I
> > > > >> remian confused as to how one does it.  If you talking
> > > about just
> > > > >> giving me the LDH with a IDN-tld, ok, i understand.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> a.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >