RE: [gnso-idng] RE: same string registered at 2nd level across different IDN gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]

["Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yes Adrian.  The first step though in my opinion is to decide whether this 
group is interested in working on this issue.

Chuck 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Kinderis [mailto:adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:39 AM
> To: Gomes, Chuck; Edmon Chung; gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [gnso-idng] RE: same string registered at 2nd 
> level across different IDN gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking 
> IDN gTLDs]
> 
> So, it could be this group but should the fact that you are 
> changing tack be advertised to the Council?
> 
> As I said the conversation seems fruitful but it is not where 
> you started with your original charter. The current 
> discussions may attract interested parties.
> 
> My two cents plus GST.
> 
> Adrian Kinderis
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, 3 December 2009 4:27 PM
> To: Adrian Kinderis; Edmon Chung; gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [gnso-idng] RE: same string registered at 2nd 
> level across different IDN gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking 
> IDN gTLDs]
> 
> Adrian,
> 
> Did I understand you previously that you are opposed to 
> talking about possible expedition of IDN gTLDs, which I 
> believe was the original purpose of this group?  If so, are 
> you suggesting that this group be disbanded?
> 
> I personally think that it would be better for a small group 
> to develop a white paper or recommendation paper before 
> starting discussion at the Council level.  I think it is much 
> more effective that way. Whether it should be this group or 
> not is a question that was asked in today's call. I for one, 
> am okay with that.
> 
> Chuck 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Adrian Kinderis
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:30 PM
> > To: Edmon Chung; gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [gnso-idng] RE: same string registered at 2nd level across 
> > different IDN gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> > 
> > 
> > All good conversation folks but sorry to play devil's advocate but 
> > this seems far removed from the charter that this group was 
> originally 
> > established for.
> > 
> > I don't want to sound grumpy but whilst the conversation is healthy 
> > perhaps it needs to be on a different list (i.e. the council list?)
> > 
> > Adrian Kinderis
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Edmon Chung
> > Sent: Thursday, 3 December 2009 3:19 PM
> > To: gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: same string registered at 2nd level across 
> different IDN 
> > gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> > 
> > 
> > And for DotAsia, barring the costs of ICANN fees (which 
> could make it 
> > prohibitive) our hope is to offer the IDN versions 
> automatically and 
> > at no extra cost to registrants.  That has consistently 
> been what our 
> > community had asked us to do (and in fact how .CN and .TW 
> implements 
> > it in their respective IDN TLD testbeds).
> > Edmon
> > 
> > 
> > PS. Since Israel is part of Asia, Hebrew is part of the 
> > consideration for .ASIA :-)... on a separate note, could you 
> > point me to any Hebrew IDN Language policy development 
> > group... would like to get in touch.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx 
> > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On 
> > > Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:29 AM
> > > To: Gomes, Chuck; Avri Doria; gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: RE: same string registered at 2nd level across 
> > different IDN gTLDs [RE:
> > > [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I should point out that you only activate a second level 
> > registration 
> > > in the Hebrew version of .com if we are offering the Hebrew 
> > version.  
> > > It will not be possible to introduce all possible scripts 
> > for .com at once, especially at $185,000+ a pop.
> > > 
> > > Chuck
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:20 PM
> > > > To: Avri Doria; gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: RE: same string registered at 2nd level across 
> different 
> > > > IDN gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes Avri.  Just one clarification though.  As the registrant of 
> > > > ella.com you would be the only one that we would allow to 
> > activate 
> > > > ella.Hebrew_TLD-of-dotcom but we would not 
> automatically activate 
> > > > it.  If you wanted ella-in Hebrew.com or 
> > ella-in-Hebrew.Hebrew_TLD 
> > > > of dotcom you would need to register one of those if 
> you had not 
> > > > already registered ella-in-hebrew.com.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:11 PM
> > > > > To: gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: Re: same string registered at 2nd level across
> > > > different IDN
> > > > > gTLDs [RE: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chuck is this the same for you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric, I did not think this was what you said.
> > > > >
> > > > > a.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2 Dec 2009, at 23:52, Edmon Chung wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Avri,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is really quite simple:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IF you have "ella.com"
> > > > > > THEN you can have
> > > > > "ella.<COM_in_other_language_also_operated_by_Verisign>"
> > > > > > You do NOT get a translation of "ella" in ".com"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Based on your example:
> > > > > >> I have ella.com
> > > > > >> would i get ella.Hebrew_TLD-of-dotcom ===> YES would i
> > > > > have אלה.com
> > > > > >> ===> NO or is that אללה.com ===> NO or maybe even
> > > > אלילה.com ===> NO
> > > > > > (unless of course you registered them separately)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because I am not sure what ".com" would be in different
> > > > > languages, I will turn back to my .asia example for the 
> > following
> > > > > explanation:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IF you have "ella.asia"
> > > > > > THEN you (and only you) can have
> > > > > "ella.<Asia_in_other_language_also_operated_by_DotAsia>"
> > > > > > i.e.:
> > > > > > ella.亚洲 ===(Asia in Chinese)
> > > > > > ella.アジア ===(Asia in Japanese)
> > > > > > ella.아시아 ===(Asia in Korean)
> > > > > > ella.เอเซีย ===(Asia in Thai)
> > > > > > ella.एशिया ===(Asia in Hindi)
> > > > > > ...etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IF you want "אלה.asia" it will be a different
> > > > registration.  As you
> > > > > > correctly pointed out, it is non-unique if you try
> > > > > translations.  Also
> > > > > > an important point is that this is no different than what 
> > > > > > happens today, so there would be no user confusion 
> > (or as chuck
> > > > > corrected to
> > > > > > say user confusion would be minimized... because it would
> > > > provide a
> > > > > > consistent experience)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether:
> > > > > > אלה.asia == אללה.asia == אלילה.asia
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is a matter of the IDN Language policy for Hebrew under
> > > > > .ASIA (which in fact we are trying to develop right now for
> > > > our launch
> > > > > and you are certainly welcome to provide suggestions :-))
> > > > when ".ASIA"
> > > > > launches Hebrew registrations.
> > > > > IF they are to be considered the same by registration 
> > policies, it 
> > > > > would be applied to all 
> > > > > <.ASIA_in_different_langauge_also_operated_by_DotAsia>.
> > > > That is what
> > > > > we mean by offering the same string for registration 
> > only to the 
> > > > > current registrant.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Edmon
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS. I am not sure others did not get it... at least I think
> > > > > Stephane got it... but I may be wrong...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> From: owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:owner-gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx] On
> > > > > >> Behalf Of Avri Doria
> > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 4:53 AM
> > > > > >> To: gnso-idng@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: [gnso-idng] rethinking IDN gTLDs
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On 2 Dec 2009, at 14:27, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Avri,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> If I understand you correctly, your conclusion is not
> > > > > correct.  FCFS
> > > > > >>> will only
> > > > > >> apply (for LDH or IDN) if the exact second-level 
> > domain is not 
> > > > > >> already registered as a second-level domain name in the
> > > > > applicable TLD (LDH or IDN).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On 2 Dec 2009, at 15:14, Edmon Chung wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Edmon: I think Avri you probably mistook the idea... I
> > > > think what
> > > > > >>> Chuck and I were talking about is NOT about 
> > translation at the 
> > > > > >>> second level.  But offering the same string to the same
> > > > > registrant
> > > > > >>> under an IDN TLD.  More specifically, for example, a
> > > > > registrant of
> > > > > >>> "computer.asia" will be offered "computer.???" 
> > (where "???" is 
> > > > > >>> "Asia" in Japanese), OR a registrant for 
> > "???????.asia" (where 
> > > > > >>> "???????" means "Internet" in Japanese) will be offered
> > > > > "???????.???".  There is no translation involved.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Pardon me, but i remain confused:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> concrete example/question
> > > > > >> (ps we beter develop a way of talking about this 
> that is not 
> > > > > >> confusing.  if we who supposedl understand at least
> > > > > somewhat of what
> > > > > >> is going on can't communicate, opps, we have trouble.)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have ella.com and i might like to have it in Hebrew.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> would i get ella.Hebrew_TLD-of-dotcom
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> or would i have אלה.com
> > > > > >> or is that אללה.com
> > > > > >> or maybe even אלילה.com
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> (viable transliterations ad translations)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> If we are talking about a translation or 
> > transliteration then I 
> > > > > >> remian confused as to how one does it.  If you talking
> > > > about just
> > > > > >> giving me the LDH with a IDN-tld, ok, i understand.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> a.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
>